1984 Book Club thread.

I wonder (just speculation) if O'Brien used the Telescreen to say it to Winston while he was sleeping one night.

He seems like a trig bastard, giving Winston miles and miles of rope to hang himself on. He could bust Winston right now, he has the power, but he wants to let him get a girlfriend, plot to betray the state, then break him.

gaboman wrote:

Part One, Chapter Two

The Monthly Hangings

Winston didn't go to this one. It got me to thinking, he must just do the bare mininum, like the chick in office space. She puts on the lower limit of Flair, but still gets an ass chewing from the boss. They must have busted Winston in this way, watching him, seeing him doing the basic crap just to not get detected.

Very true, the dude does the bare minimum. The interesting thing about all our theorizing is: if the government is pushing Winston to the point where he'll go so far as to plot against the government, then is the government responsible for his behaviour or is Winston? So perhaps that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but then again... this is an evil government we're dealing with, anything's possible.

Perhaps the only way to bring him back to their way of thinking was to first tip him over the edge. If they'd just tried to Re-Ned-ucate him there and then, perhaps they thought it wouldn't take.

This, of course, is purely based on what I learnt from my high-school level science class.

I think that O'Brien is insane from what I remember, and they are not happy with someone just following the rules, or like Parsons, following the rules and generic style liking Big Brother, they want NO residue of self left, they want you mentally dead, they want you to love Big Brother, then they will kill you.

It must be that they wanted that extra leverage, let Winston hang himself with all these "sinful acts" like doing the Diary and all the stuff that comes later, so that when they bust him, it's not for just not wearing enough Flair, it's for actual rebellion, and his guilt at getting busted helps crack his brain.

I think you've got it, the excess guilt makes him crack easier. He knows he's guilty of what they're accusing him of (or going to accuse him of), so he can't really argue the point.

If he'd just had negative thoughts reagrding the Party, or just the diary, he'd be able to deny any real rebelliousness and that could just foster a whole lot of resentment from false accusations rather than resignation due to him being 100% guilty.

Part One, Chapter Three

Things that were mentioned this chapter

Characters
Winston
Big Brother
Telescreen Arobics Bitch
Winston's mom, dad and sister
Old dude in tube


Government (The Party)
Big Brother
Thought Police
Doublethink
Telescreens
Physical Jerks
Floating Fortress
Ensoc (English Socialism)

Man, felt sorry for Winston and his dream of his family. Sounds like they got nuked, hid underground, then some old timer said something to the effect that they shouldn't have trusted them.

Then they were killed later in the purge of the fifties.

Sounds like English Socialism took over, then someone made a power play and took control, turned it into a totalitarian society.

I'm not sure, but I get the idea that Airstrip One (England) is with America, and Eurasia is Europe and maybe Russia.

The other one is the orientals. I don't know about that though.

They did mention something about India in Eastasia before, I forget where though.

Pretty non-eventful chapter, though it gave us lots of insight into the society and the point at which it collapsed. Also into Winston's own wounds, like you said, with his parents disappearing. In the 50's, it seems like that was the norm.

Also it got into how he had no frame of reference to mark time in the new world order. Major events came and went, and some were lies, the past was in constant change, so he had no idea if something happened for real or if it was in his mind.

It mentioned again that he thinks it's 1984, but he is not really sure.

gaboman wrote:

They did mention something about India in Eastasia before, I forget where though.

Well, then it's probably America and Britain that make up Oceania, and Europe and Russia makes up Eurasia, and India and China that make up Eastasia.

I guess I could go find a map and see what's up.

Found a pretty good one.

Good map, fo sho. Can you really get that accurate of a map from the book?

I guess someone spent a lot of time searching the books for clues as to who was what.

But, everything in the book is from Winston's perspective, and everything he is told is a mixture of lie and truth, so who knows what is government propaganda and what is really the map.

Yeah, who knows if there really is an Eastasia and Eurasia...

Didn't do my homework today. I'm totally burnt out from work.

When we read the book in school, I didn't read it except for minor skimming, I just sat and listened to what the other kids were saying, when they got to me, if they did, I just said nonsense about Winston like, "I think he was tired and stuff".


They thought I was a tard anyhow, so I got through it. As for the tests, she went over verbally in class all the major plot points, I just got it from there and passed the test.

Aight, this chapter pissed me off. The job he was doing. I guess it pissed me off cause I see it in the news all the time.

No where near what Winston does of course. But it still burns me.


With computers, his job would be useless. But I guess even in our 1984, the computers were not that great. And it stands to reason that in a toltarian society like that, even if it was today, they wouldn't have the same advanced technology.

This chapter showed us what happens when someone gets vaporised. They don't just get whacked, they get erased from all written history, movies, music, etc.

They also change whatever wrong Big Brother predictions and make it so he was right. My local news does this with the weather reports. Torks me off. They predict a big old turd, then later claim they had it right. The bastards.

I like how they celled it out, so Winston knows that he is one of a hundred who write the new reports, but he thinks his will make it, as he is good at it.

With a lot of the news online nowerdays, it's more than possible for news agencies to 'ammend' their stories. It's totally unethical, but I reckon it happens.

I like the story of Mr Oglivy. He sounds like an upstanding bloke. I'd totally have a beer with him.

I like how he said no to a love life, so he could fight those Euroaisan Bastards.

Well, that's why I said I'd have a beer with him, not white wine spritzers. Just so he'd know where I stand.

I recall it said he invented a weapon. Guys like that can drink you under the damn table.

The weapon he invented was probably a spatula sling-shot or something lame like that.

I forgot to read my parts for tuesday and today, I will check this weekend and catch up on Sunday. Been a lot of mowing this week, and extra crap I had to do at work.

That's okay, I'm only on chapter V.

What was happening... a lot of mention of newspeak and big brother, and Winston meets up with some collegues and brudes about how some of them will be exposed as trailors eventually, and the really docile ones will probably live full lives.

Chapters Five, Six and Seven.



Well, I got a lot of crap to do around the house, I put off my homework, but I got caught up and read the last 3 chapters there just now out in the hammock.

That syme dude pissed me off, I wanted to wring his neck. I found it sad that Winston was writing his diary to O'Brien. Sad indeed.

The old prositute with no teeth was gross. Poor old Winston wanted to get laid so bad, he went for it. His wife hated sex, but made him lay her to make a baby. SAD indeed.

Those 3 party members from the beginning in the cafe. I felt sorry for them a little, but part of me felt like they got what they deserved. Sounds like Big Brother moved in, made a power play, then got them out of the way.

The black haired chick was stalking Winston again, he thinks she is evil so far, but it's just that she wants him.

Winston must put off vibes of not liking the party and not know it. O'Brien seeks him out, so does the chick.

The syme guy, his job is to gut the language. And he is so high and mighty. He looks down on Winston for using Old Speak, for using a lot of words. Hilarious. Syme is trying to make everyone dumb, so they can't even think thoughts of defiance. He wants them so stupid, they can't think and he looks down on Winston for being the dumb one.