1984 Book Club thread.

Nineteen Eighty-Four (or 1984) is a dystopian novel by the English writer George Orwell, published in 1949. The book tells the story of Winston Smith and his degradation by the totalitarian state in which he lives.
Along with Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, and Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, it is among the most famous and cited dystopias in literature.
It has been translated into 62 languages and has left a profound impression upon the English language itself. Nineteen Eighty-Four, its terminology and its author have become bywords when discussing privacy and state-security issues. The term "Orwellian" has come to describe actions or organizations reminiscent of the totalitarian society depicted in the novel, and the phrase "Big Brother is watching you" has come to mean any act of surveillance that is perceived as invasive.
Nineteen Eighty-Four has, at times, been seen as revolutionary and politically dangerous and therefore was banned by many libraries in various countries, even besides those countries controlled by totalitarian regimes.
The novel was chosen by TIME Magazine as one of the 100 best English-language novels from 1923 to the present.


(from Wilki)

I wonder why TIME magazine chose to find the best books between 1923 and now... why not, like, 1912 or 1928?

Though that's really not the issue.

My copy's at home. I got a cheaper one. They had like 10 different versions of it, but they were all $500NT plus. The one I got was only $230NT.

So how're we gonna do this?

I guess pick a day we post about the book, whatever day is best for you, then we read a certain amount by that day, or before. Once a week, or twice a week. Something like that.

It's a short book, and is broken into sub chapters. I would suggest doing a subchapter on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

(those subchapter numbers that break up each chapter into smaller bits)

Sounds good. I can go for that.

So, tomorrow is Tuesday, so by tomorrow, have Chapter One, subsection one read, and say what you think. And by Thursday have Chapter One, subsection two read.

Sound cool?

Um, okay.

But today is tuesday isn't it?

Well, no problem, I'll read that section during lunch today.

It's Monday over here you time travling international dateline fellow you.

After reading only the first couple of pages, I tell you: I don't trust that big brother fellow. I reckon something's gonna happen with that.



Man, this is gonna be a dumb book club

I hope Oprah reads this thread and does a show on it. A show on how not to do a book club.

She's too snooty I think. Hell yeah, lets show her how real MEN run a book club. We say what we think. We wonder out loud if Big Brother keeps track of farts in the night. We question whether Winston might be a cylon and not know it.


Take that you uppity *****!!!

I'm wondering if there's a Ministry of Mechanics. We can call it Minime.

Sure, they got Paris Hilton in room 101. Wait, that's the ministry of whoring love. aka, Mini-Ho.


That reminds me, any Matrix things show up, like room 101, we commit sin if we don't mention it.

Part One, Chapter One

Just read the first Chapter. Below's a quick run down on what's mentioned in this chapter. We can work up more details on each (or change the info as we go). Not sure how we should go about this just yet, but we'll work it out.

Characters
Winston
Anti-sex woman
O'Brien
Emmanuel Goldstein

Government (The Party)
Big Brother
Ministry of Truth
Ministry of Peace
Ministry of Love
Ministry of Plenty
Thought Police
Two Minute Hate
"Newspeak"
Records Department (Ministry of Truth)
Fiction Department (Ministry of Truth)
Telescreens

Underground Organizations
The Brotherhood

Products
Victory Gin
Victory Cigarettes
Speakwrite

International Georgraphy
Oceania
Eurasia
Eastasia

Slogans
"War is Peace"
"Freedom is Slavery"
"Ignorance is Strength"
"Big Brother Is Watching You"

Thoughts:
The first time I read the book, I didn't like Winston very much at all in the first chapter. Dude was happy about those kids getting whacked with a machine gun, he wanted to rape that one lady (who turns out to be his girlfriend later in the book), and kill her as he finished. I remember thinking he was seriously disturbed.

This time around, I know the whole story, so I cut Winston a break. He is a victim of society, and he is what he is because they want him like that.

When he is doing the two minute Hate, he hates Goldstien, but then also hates Big Brother, he switches back and forth with his hate, hating one, then the other. His mind is shot, he believes multiple things at once, or multiple things back and forth.
As for O'Brien, I found myself picturing Kurt Russel this time around. And the good looking chick was the smallvile girl, Lana.

It's cool too how Winston knows in this first chapter that he will be caught, that they will find him for thoughtcrime, but he does it anyway. Not in any hope that he won't be caught, or that it will matter, but he is just fed up, and he is going for it.

And man, as rough as that crap sounded, I want me some Victory Gin!

Dunno, they say that stuff goes down like rice wine. That crap's awful.

But if it's the only thing to get you hazy, then why not?

Another thing interesting is that a woman speaks up during the movie and gets dragged away. Winston doesn't even care where she's off to, nor does anybody else. He barely gives the incident a single line in his diary. Like this thing is the norm.

I guess the chapter basically sets the mood of the book and introduces the key players (Winston, Big Brother, O'Brien and the woman currently known as I-don't-put-out-chick). One thing is clear from this chapter: their society is totally whacked out.

And Winston's fed up.

So two. Two things are clear from this chapter.

The chick they dragged off was a prole, so she wasn't a party member, and Winston looks down on proles at this part of the book.

But even being a prole aside, he doesn't like anyone yet, he is very selfish, a hateful little man, but you still feel empathy for him cause he is a victim of the system.


Yeah, rice wine stuff. I had some saki one time, is it like that? Saki was like lighter fluid and kerosene mixed. But man did it clear my sinuses.

And they called that one Ministry, MiniPax. Sounds like a tampon. Had to get that out there. Sorry.

Tampons for "little people," that is.

Rice wine, yeah, Saki is rice wine. You can get more concentrated kinds here, too. It's like a buck for a litre of the stuff, and it's about 40% alcohol. It's for cooking, of course, but if you were an alcoholic you could totally be plastered all week for less than 5 bucks.

That would be awesome.

It said when he drank it, it felt like someone hit him in the head. I need a drink like that.

I think it's important for the Party to keep their masses subdued and open to suggestion with alcohol. Though if he sobers up later, it could have been to show he was in a daze, but later he comes to his senses.

Could be.

Part One, Chapter Two

Things that were mentioned this chapter

Characters
Winston
Mrs. Parsons (Ah-hem, I mean "Comrade")
Mrs. Parson's shithead children
Mr. Parsons (mentioned, but didn't appear)
O'Brien (mentioned, but didn't appear: "We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness")
Goldstein (mentioned, but didn't appear)

Government (The Party)
Big Brother
Ministry of Truth
Thought Police
Doublethink
Telescreens
"Oceania, 'tis of thee"
Youth League
The Spies
The Monthly Hangings
Rations

People Who Are Hated
Eurasians
Goldstein
Thoughtcriminals

^ Not sure what that list is supposed to accomplish, but there it is again.

My favorite thing in this Chapter is Winston hearing about the military's victory in India and suddenly being instantly aware that some bad news will follow. The man's sharp. Obviously sharper than most.

Also in this chapter, Winston greets the people of the past or future "...from the age of doublethink, from the age of solitude, of Big brother, of uniformity..."

I guess at this point Orwell's made it pretty clear that Winston is going to get caught, and letting the reader know that that's inevitable, but whether or not this diary gets out or is surpressed is of greater importance.

yeah, felt no hope of him doing anything, but getting away with thoughtcrime in his head and diary till he gets caught.

Poor bugger.

I wanted to kill those kids. Your future in the hands of little Hitler youths like that. Terrifying.

That parson dude really stank, if he left a stink trail of sweat behind like he did. (maybe why he winds up in room 101 at the end, he was stinky)

I'm confused about the O'Brien dream. It's like Winston has a non sexual crush on the fellow, dreams of him, sees him as a father figure, a mentor, etc.

I wonder if he had the dream before or after he met him, it said before, but this isn't a King novel, there aint no ESP going on. I figure he met him, then dreamed about him.

Winston is trig, but he should have known that in a society where every moment is observed, that his secret little cubbyhole would be observed as well. But the poor guy had no frame of reference. I guess cause he goes down the thoughtcrime road and is not busted the next second, that he is getting away with it.

He writes his diary, knowing no one will read it, that the thought police will get it, but he writes it anyway, just so he can continue in his mind with his subversive ideas.

I don't think the dream was about O'Bryan at all, either Winston convinced himself it was about O'Bryan, or O'Bryan himself did something to either trigger the dream about him as part of his plan (very unlikely) or used the dream to his advantage (less unlikely, but him knowing about the dream is pretty much impossible). More realistically, it'd be that Winston made the connection himself.